Comments on: The Problem with Gone with the Wind http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/ writing, reading, eating, drinking, sport Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:42:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nikki http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85500 Nikki Mon, 28 Dec 2009 03:34:27 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85500 You're right! Actually, a few days ago my mom rented Gone With the Wind again, and it had been year since I had seen that movie! I'm fourteen now, so I can understand the depth and plot, characters, etc. better. I did notice how Scarlett kept her slaves, Mammy, Prissy, Pork, still after the war. I just thought "Hmm...maybe they're not slaves anymore, just regular houseworkers. That's not illegal or anything, it's not slavery." And I also noticed how Mammy and all the other workers were so loyal to her. Also how Big Sam and the other black men seemed to be fighting FOR the South. I watched the movie Glory a few months ago, and the Yankees had black men on THEIR side. Slaves that I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) escaped slavery to join the Yankee side to PROTECT THEIR FREEDOM. I just wondered why GWTW didn't seem to portray those types of characters in the book. The slaves here were loyal to their masters (haha, to someone like Scarlett?) and their Southern lives. It just bugged me a little, but I overlooked it. After reading this, though, it made me think it over. I suppose it did have flaws, huh? Every book/movie does. Even the ones that continue to be praised decades on. At least you're a fan of the book/movie. Otherwise I'd be slightly offended, because I'm a fan of it. This makes me want to read the book even more now. Thanks for the post! I ought to show this to my mother! Wonder what she'd say. You’re right! Actually, a few days ago my mom rented Gone With the Wind again, and it had been year since I had seen that movie!
I’m fourteen now, so I can understand the depth and plot, characters, etc. better.
I did notice how Scarlett kept her slaves, Mammy, Prissy, Pork, still after the war. I just thought “Hmm…maybe they’re not slaves anymore, just regular houseworkers. That’s not illegal or anything, it’s not slavery.”
And I also noticed how Mammy and all the other workers were so loyal to her.
Also how Big Sam and the other black men seemed to be fighting FOR the South. I watched the movie Glory a few months ago, and the Yankees had black men on THEIR side. Slaves that I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) escaped slavery to join the Yankee side to PROTECT THEIR FREEDOM.
I just wondered why GWTW didn’t seem to portray those types of characters in the book. The slaves here were loyal to their masters (haha, to someone like Scarlett?) and their Southern lives.
It just bugged me a little, but I overlooked it.
After reading this, though, it made me think it over. I suppose it did have flaws, huh? Every book/movie does. Even the ones that continue to be praised decades on.
At least you’re a fan of the book/movie. Otherwise I’d be slightly offended, because I’m a fan of it.

This makes me want to read the book even more now.
Thanks for the post! I ought to show this to my mother! Wonder what she’d say.

]]> By: Rose http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85238 Rose Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:27:07 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85238 Yes; that's the danger of superglueing bits of your identity to things that you like: any criticism turns into a possibly disasterous unraveling of the entire self. (See also, Roman Polanski, defense of) Mal @ 20 and John H @ 29 in particular remind me of a very good essaylet by Kaigou (http://kaigou.dreamwidth.org/332403.html?#cutid1) about GWtW, tangential to a discussion of orientalist-style cultural fetishism. Basically she says that GWtW is the culmination of a narrative that begins in the North right after the war, becomes wildly popular there, and is subsequently adopted by the South for various reasons, including commercial/economic ones. Very worth a read, including the comments. Yes; that’s the danger of superglueing bits of your identity to things that you like: any criticism turns into a possibly disasterous unraveling of the entire self. (See also, Roman Polanski, defense of)

Mal @ 20 and John H @ 29 in particular remind me of a very good essaylet by Kaigou (http://kaigou.dreamwidth.org/332403.html?#cutid1) about GWtW, tangential to a discussion of orientalist-style cultural fetishism. Basically she says that GWtW is the culmination of a narrative that begins in the North right after the war, becomes wildly popular there, and is subsequently adopted by the South for various reasons, including commercial/economic ones. Very worth a read, including the comments.

]]> By: Marly http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85218 Marly Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:02:29 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85218 Can you believe that Margaret Mitchell wanted to name the main character Pansy O'Hara? I talk to people all the time about the importance of names and I think the same must be true for even fictional characters! Scarlett O'Hara - as you describe - is a wildly complicated character. Pansy wouldn't have suited her. Scarlett was the perfect name for this feisty character. Thanks for your post! Can you believe that Margaret Mitchell wanted to name the main character Pansy O’Hara? I talk to people all the time about the importance of names and I think the same must be true for even fictional characters! Scarlett O’Hara – as you describe – is a wildly complicated character. Pansy wouldn’t have suited her. Scarlett was the perfect name for this feisty character. Thanks for your post!

]]> By: Daisy http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85216 Daisy Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:02:11 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85216 Have you read _The Wind Done Gone_, a retelling of GWTW from a slave's POV? It's excellent. Have you read _The Wind Done Gone_, a retelling of GWTW from a slave’s POV? It’s excellent.

]]> By: John H http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85098 John H Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:01:57 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85098 Growing up in the Atlanta area, I've seen the kinds of latent (and oftentimes blatant) racism that still exists. The little old lady who used to watch my sister and me while our parents were at work was as sweet as could be, and as racist as the day is long. I can only imagine how bad it was when Margaret Mitchell was growing up. The story goes that as a girl she would sit and listen to the war stories of the old Confederate veterans -- no doubt the source of her idealized version of the South and her not so flattering portrayal of northerners. Some of this can be forgiven in the same way you might forgive Mark Twain for the racist language and stereotypes he used -- what was acceptable in their time has become unacceptable in ours. But where Mark Twain was interested in changing the conventional attitudes, Margaret Mitchell glorifies those old ways and ideas. That's what I find unforgivable. Growing up in the Atlanta area, I’ve seen the kinds of latent (and oftentimes blatant) racism that still exists. The little old lady who used to watch my sister and me while our parents were at work was as sweet as could be, and as racist as the day is long.

I can only imagine how bad it was when Margaret Mitchell was growing up. The story goes that as a girl she would sit and listen to the war stories of the old Confederate veterans — no doubt the source of her idealized version of the South and her not so flattering portrayal of northerners.

Some of this can be forgiven in the same way you might forgive Mark Twain for the racist language and stereotypes he used — what was acceptable in their time has become unacceptable in ours. But where Mark Twain was interested in changing the conventional attitudes, Margaret Mitchell glorifies those old ways and ideas.

That’s what I find unforgivable.

]]> By: sylvia_rachel http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85066 sylvia_rachel Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:15:40 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85066 I think you're absolutely right in principle, and in general (one can love a thing while still seeing its flaws with clear eyes; there are other options between "ZOMG best thing evar" and "eeeeeeevil!1!"). The only thing that stops me being in 100% agreement with everything you say above is that I've never found GWTW even a little bit appealing, even at the age when I was gobbling up <i>Flowers in the Attic</i>. (Disclaimer: I haven't read the book, and have seen the movie probably only one and a half times.) As an adult, I find the sexism and racism, the glorification of the antebellum slave economy, and Scarlett's callous disregard for the suffering of everyone who isn't her repellent. I can't honestly say how much of that I registered, or could have articulated, at the time when I first saw the film (I was in junior high, I think, but I can't get any more precise than that -- obviously it was not a life-changing experience, or I'd remember). But I already didn't like it much and, frankly, couldn't see what the big deal was. Of course, I'm a heretic: I don't like the Hollywood version of <i>The Wizard of Oz</i>, either. I think you’re absolutely right in principle, and in general (one can love a thing while still seeing its flaws with clear eyes; there are other options between “ZOMG best thing evar” and “eeeeeeevil!1!”).

The only thing that stops me being in 100% agreement with everything you say above is that I’ve never found GWTW even a little bit appealing, even at the age when I was gobbling up Flowers in the Attic. (Disclaimer: I haven’t read the book, and have seen the movie probably only one and a half times.)

As an adult, I find the sexism and racism, the glorification of the antebellum slave economy, and Scarlett’s callous disregard for the suffering of everyone who isn’t her repellent. I can’t honestly say how much of that I registered, or could have articulated, at the time when I first saw the film (I was in junior high, I think, but I can’t get any more precise than that — obviously it was not a life-changing experience, or I’d remember). But I already didn’t like it much and, frankly, couldn’t see what the big deal was.

Of course, I’m a heretic: I don’t like the Hollywood version of The Wizard of Oz, either.

]]> By: Delux http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85065 Delux Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:34:27 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85065 No, that's not a parody, she really means it. <a href="http://www.foodhistory.com/foodnotes/leftovers/african/infl/01/" rel="nofollow">This really seems to sum it up.</a> No, that’s not a parody, she really means it. This really seems to sum it up.

]]> By: We criticize because we love http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85064 We criticize because we love Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:28:19 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85064 [...] Justine Larbalestier’s post yesterday, The Problem with Gone with the Wind [...] [...] Justine Larbalestier’s post yesterday, The Problem with Gone with the Wind [...]

]]> By: Kaethe http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85062 Kaethe Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:54:13 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85062 Brava! I first read GWTW when I was 12, and moving out of Nancy Drews into real fiction. Although I haven't reread in years, I still love it for all its flaws. Now, I see it as the sort of story people Southerners told themselves about the Civil War and Reconstruction. (And among family and older acquaintances, still tell) Then, I read it as a manual for capturing the attention of guys without being all that pretty. More than perhaps any other story, my perception has changed enormously over the years. I read Rebecca by DuMaurier when I was twelve, too. I'd love to see what you have to say about that. Brava! I first read GWTW when I was 12, and moving out of Nancy Drews into real fiction. Although I haven’t reread in years, I still love it for all its flaws. Now, I see it as the sort of story people Southerners told themselves about the Civil War and Reconstruction. (And among family and older acquaintances, still tell) Then, I read it as a manual for capturing the attention of guys without being all that pretty. More than perhaps any other story, my perception has changed enormously over the years.

I read Rebecca by DuMaurier when I was twelve, too. I’d love to see what you have to say about that.

]]> By: Jodie http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85061 Jodie Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:22:05 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85061 Thanks for this post Justine. I've been struggling with my feelings over a certain insanely popular series and my feminist principles. How can I be saying I enjoy this series when there's so much awfully wrong with the ideas behind the text? Your post ad the comments go someway towards answering this. As for the fact that there are people taking the opposite direction and trying to claim something is great when it has serious issues, that seems to be the permenant condition of 50% the world, in so many different arenas at the moment. Thanks for this post Justine. I’ve been struggling with my feelings over a certain insanely popular series and my feminist principles. How can I be saying I enjoy this series when there’s so much awfully wrong with the ideas behind the text? Your post ad the comments go someway towards answering this. As for the fact that there are people taking the opposite direction and trying to claim something is great when it has serious issues, that seems to be the permenant condition of 50% the world, in so many different arenas at the moment.

]]> By: Shveta Thakrar http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85060 Shveta Thakrar Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:51:55 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85060 <i>Yes, </i>Gone with the Wind<i> is an amazing book and film. Yes, it’s the tale of two extraordinarily strong women, Scarlett O’Hara and Melanie Wilkes, and their enduring friendship. For many years I loved it. Feel free to continue loving it, but please don’t pretend that us critics are being unfair, or in some way misreading </i>Gone with the Wind<i> when we call it on its nostalgic longing for an era in which the white upper classes lived decadent useless lives dependent on the blood of black people. We’re not.</i> *happy sigh* Oh, how I love your essays. I agree completely. It's like people think if they acknowledge the flaws, they have to admit to a failing in themselves. No! Just admit it's there; observe with clear eyes. That's all we're asking. As you said, Justine, people can still love what they love while acknowledging the problems. That's how we change things--by taking a real look at the perceptions we take for granted in our own lives. Yes, Gone with the Wind is an amazing book and film. Yes, it’s the tale of two extraordinarily strong women, Scarlett O’Hara and Melanie Wilkes, and their enduring friendship. For many years I loved it. Feel free to continue loving it, but please don’t pretend that us critics are being unfair, or in some way misreading Gone with the Wind when we call it on its nostalgic longing for an era in which the white upper classes lived decadent useless lives dependent on the blood of black people.

We’re not.

*happy sigh* Oh, how I love your essays. I agree completely. It’s like people think if they acknowledge the flaws, they have to admit to a failing in themselves. No! Just admit it’s there; observe with clear eyes. That’s all we’re asking. As you said, Justine, people can still love what they love while acknowledging the problems. That’s how we change things–by taking a real look at the perceptions we take for granted in our own lives.

]]> By: Summer http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85059 Summer Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:21:57 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85059 Also: Definently love JJ's comment. I love Lyra-and most of my favorite characters are pretty 'bad'-but very human in that sense. Also:

Definently love JJ’s comment. I love Lyra-and most of my favorite characters are pretty ‘bad’-but very human in that sense.

]]> By: Summer http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85058 Summer Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:18:55 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85058 Woooo! You are just so awesome! I swear you are my new hero! (You're probabley one of the only author's who actually bother's to speak out about this stuff! Don’t get me started on the character of Prissy. Please do? I really enjoy your rants. Their very enlighting-I've never read the book and haven't seen the film in ages-I'd forgotten all of this! (Somehow) ( Footnote one: Well, at least you were a child. I'll try not to laugh to hard. ;) ) Woooo! You are just so awesome!
I swear you are my new hero! (You’re probabley one of the only author’s who actually bother’s to speak out about this stuff!

Don’t get me started on the character of Prissy.

Please do? I really enjoy your rants. Their very enlighting-I’ve never read the book and haven’t seen the film in ages-I’d forgotten all of this! (Somehow)

( Footnote one: Well, at least you were a child. I’ll try not to laugh to hard. ;) )

]]> By: SF Signal http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85054 SF Signal Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:30:28 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85054 <strong>SF Tidbits for 12/2/09...</strong> Interviews/ProfilesClarkesworld interviews Nnedi Okorafor.CultPop.com interviews Brom. (via EosBooks)TVO interviews Cory Doctorow (video).Bibliophile Stalker interviews Steve Berman & Craig Gidney.Comic Book Outsiders Episode podcast-interview Paul... SF Tidbits for 12/2/09…

Interviews/ProfilesClarkesworld interviews Nnedi Okorafor.CultPop.com interviews Brom. (via EosBooks)TVO interviews Cory Doctorow (video).Bibliophile Stalker interviews Steve Berman & Craig Gidney.Comic Book Outsiders Episode podcast-interview Paul…

]]> By: Tere Kirkland http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85049 Tere Kirkland Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:39:55 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85049 Loving GWTW is like eating deep-fried Oreos-- you know they're horrible for you, yet you love them anyway. There are plenty of books and movies I have a love/hate relationship with, but the buttons GWTW pushes are much hotter than most of my "guilty pleasures" (LK Hamilton, anyone?). Thanks for a great post. Loving GWTW is like eating deep-fried Oreos– you know they’re horrible for you, yet you love them anyway. There are plenty of books and movies I have a love/hate relationship with, but the buttons GWTW pushes are much hotter than most of my “guilty pleasures” (LK Hamilton, anyone?).

Thanks for a great post.

]]> By: Mal http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85048 Mal Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:13:16 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85048 Excellent rant! I usually get slammed when I say that GWTW is a disgusting piece of tripe that did as much to damage the rights of African Americans as Bull Connor or George Wallace. GWTW made racism (and worse: *slavery* romantic, sentimental, stylish, and "decent." It dressed ignorant bigotry in the robes of nostalgic Americana. If there's one lesson feminists should be now have learned it's that we must never build our rights and our power on the oppression of others. Scarlett O'Hara is *not* a "strong woman," still less a "feminist icon" because her putative strength and feminism are predicated on the forced labor of others. Not to mention that on the pure face of it, she's no model of feminism, having married her way to wealth not once but twice. In short, blech. Excellent rant! I usually get slammed when I say that GWTW is a disgusting piece of tripe that did as much to damage the rights of African Americans as Bull Connor or George Wallace. GWTW made racism (and worse: *slavery* romantic, sentimental, stylish, and “decent.” It dressed ignorant bigotry in the robes of nostalgic Americana. If there’s one lesson feminists should be now have learned it’s that we must never build our rights and our power on the oppression of others. Scarlett O’Hara is *not* a “strong woman,” still less a “feminist icon” because her putative strength and feminism are predicated on the forced labor of others. Not to mention that on the pure face of it, she’s no model of feminism, having married her way to wealth not once but twice.

In short, blech.

]]> By: Justine http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85047 Justine Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:04:05 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85047 Delux: OMG! <a href="http://www.foodhistory.com/inklings/books/mammy.htm" rel="nofollow">That's</a> not a parody is it? Thanks for the link, both of them. They hit on the head why the Mammy stereotype is so appalling. I've added that link to the post. Jan Relv: I've never seen <i>Birth of a Nation</i> but I've read a great deal about it. And, yes, it has a lot in common with GWTW. Delux: OMG! That’s not a parody is it? Thanks for the link, both of them. They hit on the head why the Mammy stereotype is so appalling. I’ve added that link to the post.

Jan Relv: I’ve never seen Birth of a Nation but I’ve read a great deal about it. And, yes, it has a lot in common with GWTW.

]]> By: Nicole R Murphy http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85046 Nicole R Murphy Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:13:04 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85046 I can't remember the first time I saw the movie (it was when I was quite young and looooong before reading the book) but I do remember feeling immediatly uncomfortable about Scarlett and the way she used people to get what she wanted. I was always much more drawn to Melanie, who to my mind had a quiet strength and was cared for because she was who she was and didn't have to force it like Scarlett did. If Scarlett is a poster-girl for feminism, I think we're in trouble. I think this is an important discussion to have - freely talking about the flaws of something, even if you love it as a whole (or love aspects of it). If you can't do this with books, movies and so on, how on earth can you do it with people? It's a reason I love the Smart Bitches Trashy Books blog - those girls do love their romance, but recognise at times the genre goes horribly, horribly wrong and that should be noted and brought to attention so the genre as a whole can improve. I can’t remember the first time I saw the movie (it was when I was quite young and looooong before reading the book) but I do remember feeling immediatly uncomfortable about Scarlett and the way she used people to get what she wanted. I was always much more drawn to Melanie, who to my mind had a quiet strength and was cared for because she was who she was and didn’t have to force it like Scarlett did. If Scarlett is a poster-girl for feminism, I think we’re in trouble.

I think this is an important discussion to have – freely talking about the flaws of something, even if you love it as a whole (or love aspects of it). If you can’t do this with books, movies and so on, how on earth can you do it with people? It’s a reason I love the Smart Bitches Trashy Books blog – those girls do love their romance, but recognise at times the genre goes horribly, horribly wrong and that should be noted and brought to attention so the genre as a whole can improve.

]]> By: Julia Rios http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85045 Julia Rios Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:04:39 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85045 Thank you fir this, Justine. You have laid out almost exactly my own feelings about <i>Gone With the Wind</i>. As a child, I saw it in school, and then read it and rented the video from my local video store multiple times. Then, slowly, I started to realize all of the horrible things that were glossed over, or even portrayed as good. I can't quite shake the pull it has. It's compelling. Scarlett is compelling and resourceful (even though she's definitely not BFF material!), and Melanie remains utterly mysterious to me. Why is she so good to Scarlett? But then... yes, Mammy and Prissy. Oh, Prissy. I shudder at the memory of imitating her on the playground. I had a brief flare of semi-popularity for being able to imitate Butterfly McQueen's voice, and I remember being so proud of it, and finding her character hilarious. It's important to examine these things, and I'm glad that there are others like you out there doing it so eloquently. Thank you fir this, Justine. You have laid out almost exactly my own feelings about Gone With the Wind. As a child, I saw it in school, and then read it and rented the video from my local video store multiple times. Then, slowly, I started to realize all of the horrible things that were glossed over, or even portrayed as good. I can’t quite shake the pull it has. It’s compelling. Scarlett is compelling and resourceful (even though she’s definitely not BFF material!), and Melanie remains utterly mysterious to me. Why is she so good to Scarlett? But then… yes, Mammy and Prissy. Oh, Prissy. I shudder at the memory of imitating her on the playground. I had a brief flare of semi-popularity for being able to imitate Butterfly McQueen’s voice, and I remember being so proud of it, and finding her character hilarious. It’s important to examine these things, and I’m glad that there are others like you out there doing it so eloquently.

]]> By: Alpha Lyra http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85044 Alpha Lyra Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:59:06 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85044 Brilliant post! GWTW was my mother's favorite book. She died when I was young, so I read it a few years ago in an effort to get to know her better (not that you can learn much about a person from reading their favorite book, but if it's all you've got...) I really enjoyed the book. I wouldn't say I wholeheartedly liked Scarlett, but she was a lot of fun to read about. She was three-dimensional, believeable, and fascinating. I think it's very possible to enjoy something, yet be aware of its flaws. Lots of my favorite books have places where I roll my eyes at them. Brilliant post! GWTW was my mother’s favorite book. She died when I was young, so I read it a few years ago in an effort to get to know her better (not that you can learn much about a person from reading their favorite book, but if it’s all you’ve got…)

I really enjoyed the book. I wouldn’t say I wholeheartedly liked Scarlett, but she was a lot of fun to read about. She was three-dimensional, believeable, and fascinating. I think it’s very possible to enjoy something, yet be aware of its flaws. Lots of my favorite books have places where I roll my eyes at them.

]]> By: Sarah Rees Brennan http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85043 Sarah Rees Brennan Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:21:27 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85043 Oh the deliberate whitewashing of things we love. Like in Rhett Butler's People the fact Rhett shot a black dude 'for being uppity to a lady' - GWTW quote - was retconned, and the book was like 'Oh - Rhett shot him when he was being DRAGGED OFF TO BE LYNCHED for talking to a white woman' - because racism is just awful and Mr B was a progressive dude! Whereas flaws make things interesting: personally I love Scarlett, for instance. To crib Congreve, I love her for her faults. Oh the deliberate whitewashing of things we love.

Like in Rhett Butler’s People the fact Rhett shot a black dude ‘for being uppity to a lady’ – GWTW quote – was retconned, and the book was like ‘Oh – Rhett shot him when he was being DRAGGED OFF TO BE LYNCHED for talking to a white woman’ – because racism is just awful and Mr B was a progressive dude!

Whereas flaws make things interesting: personally I love Scarlett, for instance. To crib Congreve, I love her for her faults.

]]> By: Jan Relv http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85042 Jan Relv Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:55:50 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85042 Dear Justine. As a (french) film-making student, I have to ask: Have you ever seen David Worth Griffith's "Birth of a Nation"? Hailed as the movie that invented everything for storytelling in movie form and suffering from, well, the same things that you denounce in Gone With the Wind? I think it is an interesting parralel. Regards, Jan Dear Justine.
As a (french) film-making student, I have to ask: Have you ever seen David Worth Griffith’s “Birth of a Nation”? Hailed as the movie that invented everything for storytelling in movie form and suffering from, well, the same things that you denounce in Gone With the Wind? I think it is an interesting parralel.
Regards,
Jan

]]> By: London http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85041 London Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:16:34 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85041 I decided at the beginning of last summer that I was going to read Gone with the Wind, because I wanted (still want) to read more "classics" and more widely outside my genre. I read the odd little introduction and then began reading the novel. I ooh'ed and ahh'ed at the beautiful language.. up to the point when Mitchell describes the black slaves walking up the hill, laughing with high-pitched little voices, like children. Ugh. How is that not racist? You can't excuse it by saying it's the characters' view of African-Americans, not Mitchell's -- the narration is pretty third person omniscient imho. Those are clearly Mitchell's own views. The silly little introduction as much as said so, but I didn't realize how horrifying and blatant it would be, at least to me, until I got into the book itself. Ok, I admit, like Diana Peterfreund said about the movie she watches every Christmas, I fast-forward through the scenes in Monty Python's Flying Circus that include blackface, but overall I still LOVE Monty Python. For some reason, I can't forgive Mitchell the way I can forgive Monty Python. Maybe it's because racism doesn't pervade the work they have done the same way it seems to pervade GWTW. Maybe it's because I think Monty Python as a group was trying, if anything, to convey a message about how absurd society is, while Mitchell was deliberately glorifying a society built and maintained by slave labor. I don't know. Anyway -- an eloquent and insightful post, as always, Justine. Thanks. :) I decided at the beginning of last summer that I was going to read Gone with the Wind, because I wanted (still want) to read more “classics” and more widely outside my genre. I read the odd little introduction and then began reading the novel. I ooh’ed and ahh’ed at the beautiful language.. up to the point when Mitchell describes the black slaves walking up the hill, laughing with high-pitched little voices, like children. Ugh. How is that not racist? You can’t excuse it by saying it’s the characters’ view of African-Americans, not Mitchell’s — the narration is pretty third person omniscient imho. Those are clearly Mitchell’s own views. The silly little introduction as much as said so, but I didn’t realize how horrifying and blatant it would be, at least to me, until I got into the book itself.

Ok, I admit, like Diana Peterfreund said about the movie she watches every Christmas, I fast-forward through the scenes in Monty Python’s Flying Circus that include blackface, but overall I still LOVE Monty Python. For some reason, I can’t forgive Mitchell the way I can forgive Monty Python. Maybe it’s because racism doesn’t pervade the work they have done the same way it seems to pervade GWTW. Maybe it’s because I think Monty Python as a group was trying, if anything, to convey a message about how absurd society is, while Mitchell was deliberately glorifying a society built and maintained by slave labor. I don’t know.

Anyway — an eloquent and insightful post, as always, Justine. Thanks. :)

]]> By: Delux http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85040 Delux Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:05:47 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85040 It is a lot harder for me, than I think it is for some other people, to get all worked up about Scarlet Ohara as some sort of feminist icon: the place I would have had in Scarlet's world is quite clear. Ditto my mother and her family living in the Jim Crow south when the book came out. Still, its fascinating to see the lengths to which people will go to <a href="http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/mammies/" rel="nofollow">cling to the Mammy stereotype</a> as some sort of positive vision. I have to wonder if Merryment used <a href="http://www.foodhistory.com/inklings/books/mammy.htm" rel="nofollow">this</a> as part of her source material. It is a lot harder for me, than I think it is for some other people, to get all worked up about Scarlet Ohara as some sort of feminist icon: the place I would have had in Scarlet’s world is quite clear. Ditto my mother and her family living in the Jim Crow south when the book came out.
Still, its fascinating to see the lengths to which people will go to cling to the Mammy stereotype as some sort of positive vision. I have to wonder if Merryment used this as part of her source material.

]]> By: Karen Wester Newton http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problem-with-gone-with-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-85039 Karen Wester Newton Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:53:37 +0000 http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6969#comment-85039 Personally, I have always found GWTW to be overrated. The story is about the "suffering" of one very attractive white woman and it's pretty much oblivious to the suffering of everyone else. The movie is memorable mostly for its scope and some of its technical achievements-- like the famous scene with the acres and acres of wounded men. Scarlet got away with being selfish because of who she was and what she looked like-- not really my idea of groundbreaking literature. Personally, I have always found GWTW to be overrated. The story is about the “suffering” of one very attractive white woman and it’s pretty much oblivious to the suffering of everyone else. The movie is memorable mostly for its scope and some of its technical achievements– like the famous scene with the acres and acres of wounded men.

Scarlet got away with being selfish because of who she was and what she looked like– not really my idea of groundbreaking literature.

]]>