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	<title>Comments on: NaNo Tip No. 18: Breaking with Stereotypes</title>
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		<title>By: Friday Ephemera, 10/21/11 Special NaNoWriMo Edition &#187; Tell Great Stories</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-133334</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Ephemera, 10/21/11 Special NaNoWriMo Edition &#187; Tell Great Stories</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-133334</guid>
		<description>[...] NaNo Tip #18: Breaking with Stereotypes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NaNo Tip #18: Breaking with Stereotypes [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84838</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84838</guid>
		<description>One of the characters in my book is the girlfriend of the protag, and because she&#039;s from Japan I&#039;ve been conscious from the beginning that when I finally bring her into the story I have to avoid making her submissive or passive in any way.  Because while that&#039;s the standard in a lot of American works, especially action movies (as you already pointed out), there&#039;s also the stereotype of the meek Japanese wife.  So I&#039;ve got two sets of stereotypes to avoid.

But subversions are often as cliched as as the original tropes themselves, so I can&#039;t just make her outspoken or independent and call that a character either.  I&#039;m currently stuck on just how to make her unique, and that&#039;s one of the things gnawing at the back of my head.

***

I don&#039;t know if you take requests for tips or answer out-of-the-blue questions, but one problem I&#039;m having right now is maintaining my interest on this one project.  It&#039;s not that I&#039;m having doubts about it (if anything my pendulum is swinging the other way, towards egotism and self-delusion).  But with work and other things I have a limited amount of free time each day and having to devote so much of it to this one thing to keep my daily word count met at the expense of other things I like to spend time on is making it hard to summon much enthusiasm.  Especially when I get stuck on a single scene for a couple days.

Do you ever have this problem?  Any tips on combatting it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the characters in my book is the girlfriend of the protag, and because she&#8217;s from Japan I&#8217;ve been conscious from the beginning that when I finally bring her into the story I have to avoid making her submissive or passive in any way.  Because while that&#8217;s the standard in a lot of American works, especially action movies (as you already pointed out), there&#8217;s also the stereotype of the meek Japanese wife.  So I&#8217;ve got two sets of stereotypes to avoid.</p>
<p>But subversions are often as cliched as as the original tropes themselves, so I can&#8217;t just make her outspoken or independent and call that a character either.  I&#8217;m currently stuck on just how to make her unique, and that&#8217;s one of the things gnawing at the back of my head.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you take requests for tips or answer out-of-the-blue questions, but one problem I&#8217;m having right now is maintaining my interest on this one project.  It&#8217;s not that I&#8217;m having doubts about it (if anything my pendulum is swinging the other way, towards egotism and self-delusion).  But with work and other things I have a limited amount of free time each day and having to devote so much of it to this one thing to keep my daily word count met at the expense of other things I like to spend time on is making it hard to summon much enthusiasm.  Especially when I get stuck on a single scene for a couple days.</p>
<p>Do you ever have this problem?  Any tips on combatting it?</p>
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		<title>By: imelda</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84837</link>
		<dc:creator>imelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84837</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the responses, guys. I really appreciate them. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the responses, guys. I really appreciate them. <img src='http://justinelarbalestier.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: wandering-dreamer</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84830</link>
		<dc:creator>wandering-dreamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84830</guid>
		<description>Lol, I just found those books at my library and the copy of Front and Center is on my bed now (least it should but, if it&#039;s not this will be fun trying to to find it....) and I thought that DJ was pretty well portrayed but had a few issues with the book. No biggie though.
And I&#039;m fairly sure my character isn&#039;t a stereotype since I do get in her head, have her explain herself and the world, she feels scared, worried, um, happy I guess at points, she feels real to me. I guess if you can get into a real argument with your character over something then they are no longer a stereotype.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol, I just found those books at my library and the copy of Front and Center is on my bed now (least it should but, if it&#8217;s not this will be fun trying to to find it&#8230;.) and I thought that DJ was pretty well portrayed but had a few issues with the book. No biggie though.<br />
And I&#8217;m fairly sure my character isn&#8217;t a stereotype since I do get in her head, have her explain herself and the world, she feels scared, worried, um, happy I guess at points, she feels real to me. I guess if you can get into a real argument with your character over something then they are no longer a stereotype.</p>
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		<title>By: Shveta Thakrar</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84827</link>
		<dc:creator>Shveta Thakrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84827</guid>
		<description>And I get to hear Catherine read from &lt;i&gt;Front and Center&lt;/i&gt; tonight!  Whee!

Everyone who hasn&#039;t read her Dairy Queen books yet, get to it.  Seriously.  Everything Justine has said is so true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I get to hear Catherine read from <i>Front and Center</i> tonight!  Whee!</p>
<p>Everyone who hasn&#8217;t read her Dairy Queen books yet, get to it.  Seriously.  Everything Justine has said is so true.</p>
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		<title>By: Summer</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84825</link>
		<dc:creator>Summer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84825</guid>
		<description>I remember reading the &#039;list of SF/Fantasy cliches to avoid&#039; or whatever Holly Black linked to on her website-and it covered just about anything you can do with a charecter/situation. I much prefer this-I have NO trouble with characters whatsoever, but I have a few that I worried people might think are sterotypes-the smart, socially awkward Chinese guy, the strong Amazon, the prickly, rude German guy,the Orphaned hero-but now I&#039;ve realized that my characters are so much more than their surface. Thank you Justine!
Oh and I just finished MoM! Loved it! Magic Lessons is up next!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading the &#8216;list of SF/Fantasy cliches to avoid&#8217; or whatever Holly Black linked to on her website-and it covered just about anything you can do with a charecter/situation. I much prefer this-I have NO trouble with characters whatsoever, but I have a few that I worried people might think are sterotypes-the smart, socially awkward Chinese guy, the strong Amazon, the prickly, rude German guy,the Orphaned hero-but now I&#8217;ve realized that my characters are so much more than their surface. Thank you Justine!<br />
Oh and I just finished MoM! Loved it! Magic Lessons is up next!</p>
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		<title>By: Skaldi</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84820</link>
		<dc:creator>Skaldi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84820</guid>
		<description>Imelda, yes there is a difference.

An archetype (according to Jung) is a part of the collective unconscious. It defines the role of a character in a story (since this is how we&#039;re talking about it). Now this is character in the very generalist of senses. It is character without content, context or definition. Archetypes are thought to exist regardless of how we view or define the world around ourselves.

A stereotype is a cliched character. This is character with content, context and definition, but this is usually of the type that&#039;s seen far too often. Usually they are underdeveloped. Stereotypes are reliant upon society and culture, usually a specific one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imelda, yes there is a difference.</p>
<p>An archetype (according to Jung) is a part of the collective unconscious. It defines the role of a character in a story (since this is how we&#8217;re talking about it). Now this is character in the very generalist of senses. It is character without content, context or definition. Archetypes are thought to exist regardless of how we view or define the world around ourselves.</p>
<p>A stereotype is a cliched character. This is character with content, context and definition, but this is usually of the type that&#8217;s seen far too often. Usually they are underdeveloped. Stereotypes are reliant upon society and culture, usually a specific one.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeborah</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84818</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84818</guid>
		<description>I think if you&#039;re struggling to get a character to cohere it can help to think about what their core defining features are, which might be &quot;dumb jock&quot;.  The thing is that you can&#039;t stop there and have them be nothing *but* a dumb jock - because there are thousands of &quot;dumb jocks&quot; in the world:  what makes yours different from the rest of them?  And that&#039;s where the details come in.

How you get the details will depend on how you write - for some it might be easiest to just let it come out as you&#039;re writing the story, others might need to plan in advance.  I mostly let it happen as I write, until/unless I get stuck.  Then I think about their interactions with other characters and how that might have affected their character; or I think about things they did in those interactions and what aspect of their character might have informed that.  Once I&#039;ve had one idea I have to stop and get back to writing or I could get really carried away but mileage varies there too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you&#8217;re struggling to get a character to cohere it can help to think about what their core defining features are, which might be &#8220;dumb jock&#8221;.  The thing is that you can&#8217;t stop there and have them be nothing *but* a dumb jock &#8211; because there are thousands of &#8220;dumb jocks&#8221; in the world:  what makes yours different from the rest of them?  And that&#8217;s where the details come in.</p>
<p>How you get the details will depend on how you write &#8211; for some it might be easiest to just let it come out as you&#8217;re writing the story, others might need to plan in advance.  I mostly let it happen as I write, until/unless I get stuck.  Then I think about their interactions with other characters and how that might have affected their character; or I think about things they did in those interactions and what aspect of their character might have informed that.  Once I&#8217;ve had one idea I have to stop and get back to writing or I could get really carried away but mileage varies there too.</p>
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		<title>By: imelda</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84814</link>
		<dc:creator>imelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84814</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m actually struggling to make coherent characters! I&#039;ve been thinking that maybe what I need is to simplify and make everyone a &quot;type.&quot; But maybe there&#039;s a difference between stereotypes and archetypes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually struggling to make coherent characters! I&#8217;ve been thinking that maybe what I need is to simplify and make everyone a &#8220;type.&#8221; But maybe there&#8217;s a difference between stereotypes and archetypes?</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84812</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84812</guid>
		<description>I love D.J.! But my favorite character who&#039;s perceived as slow has to be Max, the mighty half of Freak the Mighty. Everybody (including himself) dismisses him as stupid, but as you read you realize there&#039;s a lot more to his character beneath the &quot;dumb strong guy&quot; exterior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love D.J.! But my favorite character who&#8217;s perceived as slow has to be Max, the mighty half of Freak the Mighty. Everybody (including himself) dismisses him as stupid, but as you read you realize there&#8217;s a lot more to his character beneath the &#8220;dumb strong guy&#8221; exterior.</p>
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		<title>By: Justine</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84810</link>
		<dc:creator>Justine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84810</guid>
		<description>Rockinlibrarian: Well, pretty much every character is a stereotype of one sort if you strip them down to essentials. Nothing&#039;s new since Homer and all that. The trick is to let them live outside the recognisable type.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rockinlibrarian: Well, pretty much every character is a stereotype of one sort if you strip them down to essentials. Nothing&#8217;s new since Homer and all that. The trick is to let them live outside the recognisable type.</p>
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		<title>By: rockinlibrarian</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84808</link>
		<dc:creator>rockinlibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84808</guid>
		<description>Thanks for such a positive spin on this advice! Usually you just see &quot;don&#039;t write stereotypes/cliches/archetypes/orphan-apprentice-and-headstrong-princess-go-on-a-quest-in-a-fairy-tale-kingdom&quot; (that last is one I have in my W-notveryin-P pile), and then they go on and describe certain character types that make you say &quot;but hey, I LOVE so-and-so, who is exactly that sort of character!&quot; (Obi-Wan Kenobi is my hero even if he IS a Wise Old Mentor Figure). I love your advice to work to make type characters transcend their stereotypes. The types give us some grounding and familiarity-- the little personal details give us people to care about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for such a positive spin on this advice! Usually you just see &#8220;don&#8217;t write stereotypes/cliches/archetypes/orphan-apprentice-and-headstrong-princess-go-on-a-quest-in-a-fairy-tale-kingdom&#8221; (that last is one I have in my W-notveryin-P pile), and then they go on and describe certain character types that make you say &#8220;but hey, I LOVE so-and-so, who is exactly that sort of character!&#8221; (Obi-Wan Kenobi is my hero even if he IS a Wise Old Mentor Figure). I love your advice to work to make type characters transcend their stereotypes. The types give us some grounding and familiarity&#8211; the little personal details give us people to care about.</p>
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		<title>By: Justine</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84807</link>
		<dc:creator>Justine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84807</guid>
		<description>Kaia: They are most defnitely out. &lt;i&gt;The Off Season&lt;/i&gt; is even in paperback. And the third and final book pub&#039;d in September. 

Kristan: You won&#039;t be sorry.

Kristin: I guessed as much given your blurb on the front cover of &lt;i&gt;Front and Center&lt;/i&gt;. Murdock&#039;s a wonderful writer, isn&#039;t she?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaia: They are most defnitely out. <i>The Off Season</i> is even in paperback. And the third and final book pub&#8217;d in September. </p>
<p>Kristan: You won&#8217;t be sorry.</p>
<p>Kristin: I guessed as much given your blurb on the front cover of <i>Front and Center</i>. Murdock&#8217;s a wonderful writer, isn&#8217;t she?</p>
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		<title>By: kristin cashore</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84806</link>
		<dc:creator>kristin cashore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84806</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m another adoring D.J. fan.  And another book I love for its presentation of a character who makes you think twice about our inflexible definition of the words &quot;smart&quot; and &quot;dumb&quot;: &lt;i&gt;Marcelo in the Real World&lt;/i&gt; by Francisco X. Stork.  Marcelo isn&#039;t a jock, but he certainly is perceived as slow/stupid, and wow, is he ever not!  He&#039;s such a rich, insightful, smart person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m another adoring D.J. fan.  And another book I love for its presentation of a character who makes you think twice about our inflexible definition of the words &#8220;smart&#8221; and &#8220;dumb&#8221;: <i>Marcelo in the Real World</i> by Francisco X. Stork.  Marcelo isn&#8217;t a jock, but he certainly is perceived as slow/stupid, and wow, is he ever not!  He&#8217;s such a rich, insightful, smart person.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristan</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84803</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84803</guid>
		<description>Wow those books / that character sounds awesome! Consider me sold. (No, seriously, you sold me on them.)

My writing prof often used to say that some of the best characters were stereotypes... with something that made them different. I think that&#039;s very similar to what you&#039;re saying here. Stereotypes are good in a way, because they are shortcuts: you say &quot;dumb jock,&quot; and I immediately get a sense of that character. But you say &quot;dumb girl jock&quot; and I immediately get intrigued. It&#039;s both familiar and unique enough.

Stereotypes can be good shortcuts for writers too. We just have to be sure we do that extra bit of work to, as you said, &quot;make them transcend.&quot; :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow those books / that character sounds awesome! Consider me sold. (No, seriously, you sold me on them.)</p>
<p>My writing prof often used to say that some of the best characters were stereotypes&#8230; with something that made them different. I think that&#8217;s very similar to what you&#8217;re saying here. Stereotypes are good in a way, because they are shortcuts: you say &#8220;dumb jock,&#8221; and I immediately get a sense of that character. But you say &#8220;dumb girl jock&#8221; and I immediately get intrigued. It&#8217;s both familiar and unique enough.</p>
<p>Stereotypes can be good shortcuts for writers too. We just have to be sure we do that extra bit of work to, as you said, &#8220;make them transcend.&#8221; <img src='http://justinelarbalestier.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kaia</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2009/11/18/nano-tip-no-18-breaking-with-stereotypes/comment-page-1/#comment-84801</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=6872#comment-84801</guid>
		<description>I love D.J. so much. SO SO MUCH. I love her speech patterns and her way of thinking, and all that comes with it. I owe my friend who handed me Dairy Queen and told me to read it oh so much! 

Can&#039;t wait until I can afford to buy the other two! If they&#039;re both out, that is. But you make it sound like they are!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love D.J. so much. SO SO MUCH. I love her speech patterns and her way of thinking, and all that comes with it. I owe my friend who handed me Dairy Queen and told me to read it oh so much! </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t wait until I can afford to buy the other two! If they&#8217;re both out, that is. But you make it sound like they are!</p>
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