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	<title>Comments on: Not that fussed</title>
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	<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/</link>
	<description>writing, reading, eating, drinking, sport</description>
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		<title>By: Justine</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74362</link>
		<dc:creator>Justine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74362</guid>
		<description>Livania: I agree. Contempt for teenagers is a large part of the dismissal of YA literature. Jennifer Lynn Barnes just posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://jenlyn-b.livejournal.com/169542.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a wonderful piece&lt;/a&gt; on exactly this point. You should &lt;a href=&quot;http://jenlyn-b.livejournal.com/169542.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;check it out&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Livania: I agree. Contempt for teenagers is a large part of the dismissal of YA literature. Jennifer Lynn Barnes just posted <a href="http://jenlyn-b.livejournal.com/169542.html" rel="nofollow">a wonderful piece</a> on exactly this point. You should <a href="http://jenlyn-b.livejournal.com/169542.html" rel="nofollow">check it out</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Liviania</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74349</link>
		<dc:creator>Liviania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74349</guid>
		<description>What I found annoying about the article was not the denigration of the genre, but that of the audience.  The discussion began speaking of teens&#039; short attention span and preference for non-challenging reading experiences, like the Tropic of Cancer.  I thought that was a line of latitude, not a book.

I read mostly YA, SF/Fantasy, and Romance so I&#039;m used to people ragging on my genres even though they do well.  I&#039;m not used to people asserting that due to my age I prefer the facile.  Pfft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I found annoying about the article was not the denigration of the genre, but that of the audience.  The discussion began speaking of teens&#8217; short attention span and preference for non-challenging reading experiences, like the Tropic of Cancer.  I thought that was a line of latitude, not a book.</p>
<p>I read mostly YA, SF/Fantasy, and Romance so I&#8217;m used to people ragging on my genres even though they do well.  I&#8217;m not used to people asserting that due to my age I prefer the facile.  Pfft.</p>
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		<title>By: Justine</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74335</link>
		<dc:creator>Justine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74335</guid>
		<description>Marrije: I think what most people are scared of is that this may mean the end of the midlist. That the only books published by big houses will be ones by known best-selling authors. And that books that have little chance of those kind of sales will languish unpublished. So books that are more experimental or worthy or challenging will go by the wayside.

There are ways in which that&#039;s actually been happening for years already. I&#039;ve noticed especially that genre publishers have become vastly more conservative. I don&#039;t think Samuel R. Delany&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Dhalgren&lt;/i&gt; would be published in the curent climate. 

On the other hand, there&#039;s been an expansion of small independent publishers who can afford to take those kind of risks because a successful book for them does not have to sell hundreds of thousands of copies. Also as electronic publishing continues to expand I think it will create more venues for books that can&#039;t find homes with the big publishers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marrije: I think what most people are scared of is that this may mean the end of the midlist. That the only books published by big houses will be ones by known best-selling authors. And that books that have little chance of those kind of sales will languish unpublished. So books that are more experimental or worthy or challenging will go by the wayside.</p>
<p>There are ways in which that&#8217;s actually been happening for years already. I&#8217;ve noticed especially that genre publishers have become vastly more conservative. I don&#8217;t think Samuel R. Delany&#8217;s <i>Dhalgren</i> would be published in the curent climate. </p>
<p>On the other hand, there&#8217;s been an expansion of small independent publishers who can afford to take those kind of risks because a successful book for them does not have to sell hundreds of thousands of copies. Also as electronic publishing continues to expand I think it will create more venues for books that can&#8217;t find homes with the big publishers.</p>
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		<title>By: marrije</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74330</link>
		<dc:creator>marrije</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74330</guid>
		<description>Ooh, Justine, you said &quot;leveraged&quot;!! You smart person you :)

But thanks for explaining - your explanation makes sense to me, or at least gives me things to think about and research further. I have a (USian) online friend who is a litfic writer, and she is indeed seriously spooked by all this, so I&#039;m trying to understand what is going on. 

It&#039;s interesting. In a scary way, like all this crisis mayhem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, Justine, you said &#8220;leveraged&#8221;!! You smart person you <img src='http://justinelarbalestier.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But thanks for explaining &#8211; your explanation makes sense to me, or at least gives me things to think about and research further. I have a (USian) online friend who is a litfic writer, and she is indeed seriously spooked by all this, so I&#8217;m trying to understand what is going on. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting. In a scary way, like all this crisis mayhem.</p>
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		<title>By: Justine</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74309</link>
		<dc:creator>Justine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74309</guid>
		<description>Smartass: You picked the perfect name, didn&#039;t you?

Malcolm: &lt;i&gt;I agree; you should write a YA fantasy romance manga airplane manual.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s astonishing! How did you know what I&#039;m working on right now?

&lt;i&gt;And when did we stop spelling it “aeroplane”?&lt;/i&gt;

Don&#039;t look at me, I can&#039;t spell.

Brent: Yay that Confusion led to so many good things. I do think a lot of fans of adult sf/fantasy are missing out. Yay, that you&#039;re not!

Though I&#039;m a bit miffed on your world building comments. (I note that you mean on average and I have read YAs whose world building disappointed me.) I work &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; hard on my world building. Honest!

Have you read M. T. Anderson&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Octavian Nothing&lt;/i&gt; books? Now &lt;i&gt;that&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; some world building!

Marrije: While book sales are up that&#039;s mostly in paperbacks. Hardcovers, which have the biggest profit margin, are down in sales.

There are lots of theories floating around about what&#039;s happening and many I&#039;m sure that I haven&#039;t heard. Most of them revolve around the big conglomerates who&#039;ve bought up publishing houses over the last ten-twenty years and expect them to sell books the way you sell cereal. Even though it doesn&#039;t work that way. Huge advances that don&#039;t earn out are being blamed. Also rises in the cost of paper. The moon being in the seventh house. Or &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; being in the seventh house. Gazillions of different things.

It&#039;s also important to remember that some houses are doing better than others. Just as some divisions are. (Like YA and children&#039;s book as well as Christian publishing.)

Personally, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s any one thing. But I honestly don&#039;t have enough information to really understand it. Take what I say with a grain of salt. As an author I&#039;m  on the peripheraries of the industry. 

I do think publishing has lots of problems. From top to bottom and across the board. There are all sorts of crazy wasteful practices---like the returns system. Crazy money is spent on crap celebrity books. Problem is sometimes that works out. Like the returns system allowing bookshops to take a gamble on an unknown author. If the books don&#039;t selll they can just send them back to the publisher.

But some of the problems are external to publishing to do with the management of those big corporations and how leveraged they are. The real economy is doing very badly in the US and everyone&#039;s suffering. 

Compared to many other industries publishing&#039;s not doing &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; badly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smartass: You picked the perfect name, didn&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>Malcolm: <i>I agree; you should write a YA fantasy romance manga airplane manual.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s astonishing! How did you know what I&#8217;m working on right now?</p>
<p><i>And when did we stop spelling it “aeroplane”?</i></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t look at me, I can&#8217;t spell.</p>
<p>Brent: Yay that Confusion led to so many good things. I do think a lot of fans of adult sf/fantasy are missing out. Yay, that you&#8217;re not!</p>
<p>Though I&#8217;m a bit miffed on your world building comments. (I note that you mean on average and I have read YAs whose world building disappointed me.) I work <i>really</i> hard on my world building. Honest!</p>
<p>Have you read M. T. Anderson&#8217;s <i>Octavian Nothing</i> books? Now <i>that&#8217;s</i> some world building!</p>
<p>Marrije: While book sales are up that&#8217;s mostly in paperbacks. Hardcovers, which have the biggest profit margin, are down in sales.</p>
<p>There are lots of theories floating around about what&#8217;s happening and many I&#8217;m sure that I haven&#8217;t heard. Most of them revolve around the big conglomerates who&#8217;ve bought up publishing houses over the last ten-twenty years and expect them to sell books the way you sell cereal. Even though it doesn&#8217;t work that way. Huge advances that don&#8217;t earn out are being blamed. Also rises in the cost of paper. The moon being in the seventh house. Or <i>not</i> being in the seventh house. Gazillions of different things.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also important to remember that some houses are doing better than others. Just as some divisions are. (Like YA and children&#8217;s book as well as Christian publishing.)</p>
<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s any one thing. But I honestly don&#8217;t have enough information to really understand it. Take what I say with a grain of salt. As an author I&#8217;m  on the peripheraries of the industry. </p>
<p>I do think publishing has lots of problems. From top to bottom and across the board. There are all sorts of crazy wasteful practices&#8212;like the returns system. Crazy money is spent on crap celebrity books. Problem is sometimes that works out. Like the returns system allowing bookshops to take a gamble on an unknown author. If the books don&#8217;t selll they can just send them back to the publisher.</p>
<p>But some of the problems are external to publishing to do with the management of those big corporations and how leveraged they are. The real economy is doing very badly in the US and everyone&#8217;s suffering. </p>
<p>Compared to many other industries publishing&#8217;s not doing <i>that</i> badly.</p>
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		<title>By: marrije</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74308</link>
		<dc:creator>marrije</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74308</guid>
		<description>I still can&#039;t figure out exactly *why* the whole publishing world is tumbling down so badly. As you pointed out, Justine, book sales are actually *up*. 
It all sounds to me (pretty clueless outsider that I am) like a panic and a bit of mass hysteria, plus big conglomerates going for a chance to make some big cuts and earn more money doing less. 
Do you know of any sensible economist types who have explained what is going on and why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still can&#8217;t figure out exactly *why* the whole publishing world is tumbling down so badly. As you pointed out, Justine, book sales are actually *up*.<br />
It all sounds to me (pretty clueless outsider that I am) like a panic and a bit of mass hysteria, plus big conglomerates going for a chance to make some big cuts and earn more money doing less.<br />
Do you know of any sensible economist types who have explained what is going on and why?</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74307</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74307</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m an adult reader of YA and discovered YA from your (and Scott&#039;s) appearance at a local con.  I haven&#039;t bought a lot of books this year, but I noted that they&#039;re split pretty much even between YA and &quot;adult&quot; litfic.  The other thing I noticed?  All my adult purchases were from author&#039;s I&#039;ve been reading for years, and in most cases continuations of series.  

YA books, so far, have been more vibrant for me.  They don&#039;t have as much depth in world creation/detail as my adult titles, but that&#039;s an average, not an absolute.  The characters aren&#039;t always as detailed, except for the protags.  The YA characters DO more however.  There is much more action and plot/story movement.  

My adult titles (in my library) have things happening in exquisitely detailed worlds.  My YA titles have MORE happening, with details as required to enhance the story.  I still enjoy SF/Fantasy as a genre, but have discovered that YA books SF/Fantasy books have their own benefits.

People may turn to books more for entertainment as the economy gets worse.  US$8 for a paperback seems a better investment than the same for a 90m movie.  Escapism always does well in poor economic times.  Look at the pulps during the 30s for an example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m an adult reader of YA and discovered YA from your (and Scott&#8217;s) appearance at a local con.  I haven&#8217;t bought a lot of books this year, but I noted that they&#8217;re split pretty much even between YA and &#8220;adult&#8221; litfic.  The other thing I noticed?  All my adult purchases were from author&#8217;s I&#8217;ve been reading for years, and in most cases continuations of series.  </p>
<p>YA books, so far, have been more vibrant for me.  They don&#8217;t have as much depth in world creation/detail as my adult titles, but that&#8217;s an average, not an absolute.  The characters aren&#8217;t always as detailed, except for the protags.  The YA characters DO more however.  There is much more action and plot/story movement.  </p>
<p>My adult titles (in my library) have things happening in exquisitely detailed worlds.  My YA titles have MORE happening, with details as required to enhance the story.  I still enjoy SF/Fantasy as a genre, but have discovered that YA books SF/Fantasy books have their own benefits.</p>
<p>People may turn to books more for entertainment as the economy gets worse.  US$8 for a paperback seems a better investment than the same for a 90m movie.  Escapism always does well in poor economic times.  Look at the pulps during the 30s for an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm Tredinnick</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74304</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm Tredinnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74304</guid>
		<description>I agree; you should write a YA fantasy romance manga airplane manual.

Wait... did I miss the point? And when did we stop spelling it &quot;aeroplane&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree; you should write a YA fantasy romance manga airplane manual.</p>
<p>Wait&#8230; did I miss the point? And when did we stop spelling it &#8220;aeroplane&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: smartass</title>
		<link>http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2008/12/23/not-that-fussed/comment-page-1/#comment-74303</link>
		<dc:creator>smartass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justinelarbalestier.com/?p=2829#comment-74303</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re protesting too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re protesting too much.</p>
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